Ro forsters (The Gatehouse Record of the Aglionby Platt)

Also known as, or recorded in historical documents as; Standgarthsyde; Stangartick; Stangartikside

In the civil parish of Nicholforest.
In the historic county of Cumberland, England.
Modern Authority of Cumbria, England.
1974 county of Cumbria, England.
Medieval County of Cumberland.

OS Map Grid Reference: NY48028186
Latitude 55.12838° Longitude -2.81649°

The given map reference is suggested as the probable location of Ro forsters shown on the Aglionby Platt.

There are uncertain remains.

This is a Grade 2* listed building protected by law*.

The likely form(s) of this building in 1590 are;

Tower House (gentry)
Chamber Tower (Pele Tower).

Reproduced by permission of the National Library of Scotland

Description

Shown as tower of 'Ro forsters' on 1590 map and as a house 'Stonegarthside' on 1607 platt. Current house on site built 1684 by John Forster (a descendent of Robert Forster) and is thickwalled but does not seem to incorporate earlier work. (Perriam and Robinson)

House, formerly a tower house, which was probably built in the late C13 with wings dated 1682. The house is made from large mixed blocks of calciferous and gray sandstone on projecting plinth stones with shaped quoins. Medieval moulded stonework was built into C17 extensions, thought to be from the original entrance to the building. There are crow stepped gables, ashlar chimney stacks and a graduated Welsh slate roof. It is three storeys high and has numous bays, in the Scottish Baronial style. (PastScape)

Remains and foundations of an apparently defensive wall with a ditch outside it suggest that a place of strength existed here considerably before the 14th/15th c. A moat existed on the south-west where the site was not protected as on the other three sides, by marsh land. The external walls of the existing building are 4' thick, there are dressed stones from an older building built into its walls, and a dungeon and a massive staircase still exist (Curwen 1928)
The hall is double-L shape in plan and of rough masonry measuring 23 by 15 metres with an open courtyard on the southeast. Externally it is a fine example of its period and is consistent with Pevsner's date. A recent plan held by the owner shows no evidence of an earlier uncorporated structure. The supposed dungeon appears to be a contemporary cellar, and the considerable amount of earlier stonework built into the 17th century fabric, may have come from another source (See NY 48 SE5). No trace of an external ditch or moat was found in the grounds (F1 JRL 20-AUG-79). (PastScape)

Comments

The standing house is a fine house of 1682 which Perriam and Robinson state does not seem to contain any earlier structure. Curwen thought the original C13 building was a wooden hall within a moat, although that seems unlikely as the house is on quite a slope.
It is difficult to really known what the symbols on the 1590 map actually meant and the assumption they were all 'towers' is incorrect. However this house is shown as a tower on Saxton's map of 1579.
Needs to be discriminated from Stonehaugh at NY463804 which was also called Stonegarthside on the early maps.

Sources of information, references and further reading

Listed Building Number 1335605. Grade 2*.
PastScape (The online National Monument Record for England) Number 11700; 11709.
County Historic Environment Record (or Sites and Monuments Record) number(s) 3.

Websites (Gatehouse is not responsible for the content of external websites.)
- Visit Cumbria
  Vivat Trust
  Old Cumbria Gazetteer
Books
- Cooper, Nicholas, 1999, Houses of the Gentry, 1480-1680 (Yale University Press) p. 240, 280, 281
  Salter, Mike, 1998, The Castles and Tower Houses of Cumbria (Malvern: Folly Publications) p. 99 (slight)
  Perriam, Denis and Robinson, John, 1998, The Medieval Fortified Buildings of Cumbria (Kendal: CWAAS Extra Series 29) p. 240-1 (plan)
  Hugill, Robert, 1977, Castles and Peles of Cumberland and Westmorland (Newcastle; Frank Graham) p. 177-9
  Pevsner, Nikolaus, 1967, Buildings of England: Cumberland and Westmorland (Harmondsworth) p. 172
  Hugill, R.,1939, Borderland Castles and Peles (1970 Reprint by Frank Graham) p. 201-3
  Curwen, J.F., 1913, Castles and Fortified Towers of Cumberland, Westmorland and Lancashire North of the Sands (Kendal: CWAAS Extra Series 13) p. 240
  Jeffrey, A., 1864, History and Antiquities of Roxburghshire Vol. 4 p. 232 (facsimile of map) online copy
Periodical Articles
- Curwen, J.F., 1928, 'Stonegarthside Hall' Transactions of the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian and Archaeological Society Vol. 28 p. 389-392 online copy
  Graham, T.H.B., 1914, 'The Debatable Land Part II' Transactions of the Cumberland and Westmorland Antiquarian and Archaeological Society Vol. 14 facing p. 148 online copy online copy of 1607 platt online copy of 1552 map
Maps (Early maps)
- 1590, A Platt of the opposete Borders of Scotland to ye west marches of England (The Aglionby Platt) British Library online Gallery and Old Cumbria Gazetteer
  1607, Platt of the Forrest of Nicholl and the Mannor of Liddale, Arthurett and Randelinton with the Debatable groundes online copy (Long Clughside)

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The bibliography owes much to various bibliographies produced by John Kenyon for the Council for British Archaeology, the Castle Studies Group and others.

Suggestions for finding online and/or hard copies of bibliographical sources can be seen at this link.
Minor archaeological investigations, such as watching brief reports, and some other 'grey' literature is most likely to be held by H.E.R.s but is often poorly referenced and is unlikely to be recorded here, or elsewhere, but some suggestions can be found here.

The possible site or monument is represented on maps as a point location. This is a guide only. It should be noted that OS grid references defines an area, not a point location. In practice this means the actual center of the site or monument may often, but not always, be to the North East of the point shown. Locations derived from OS grid references and from latitude longitiude may differ by a small distance.
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*The listed building may not be the actual medieval building, but a building on the site of, or incorporating fragments of, the described site.

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The Gatehouse website record of

Ro forsters (Stonegarthside Hall)

a location shown on a 1590 map of the West Marches of Scotland (The Aglionby Platt)